Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:23:10 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: Greg Hummel Cc: pct-l@edina.hack.net Subject: Re: PCT Pack List On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Greg Hummel wrote: > You list bandaids and neosporin but no other provisions for your feet, ie: > tape, bandages, etc. Do you assume that the lightness of your pack will > negate the need for these? I wouldn't. greg, with much heavier packs and with less comfortable foot gear, i've found band aids work the best for me. when i was a kid, i liked moleskin, but the few times i've used it in the last several years, it seemed to do more harm than good. i've also had a bad experience with surgical tape, which tends to turn to a mushy gluey gob and cause blisters. the things that should help my feet are: 1. comfortable, light, new running shoes (replace every 700 miles) 2. a light pack 3. regular washing of them, my socks, and athelete's foot ointment 4. a hiking attitude of "i'm here 'cuse i love to be outdoors, making manning in september would be nice, but it is not the main goal". 5. a willingness to modify or even make foot gear. (the later is not as crazy at it might sound: one one trip i cut up part of my sleeping pad to make sandals. they didn't last long, but they gave my feet just the relief they needed from my light leather hiking boots.) i have heard good things about second-skin. i was thinking maybe i should take that along and give it a try. i have suffered greatly on a few past trips from foot problems, so know how bad it can be! but i rarely have problems when using running shoes. question: if you were in my situation, what else would you bring for your feet? rob =============================================================================== Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:33:42 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: SFox Cc: pct-l@edina.hack.net, Annie Warren Subject: Re: [pct-l] sleeping bags > Haven't seen this discussed yet since I've been on the list. What kind of > sleeping bags y'all using? Down compresses so much better, but when it >... i've used nothing but down for a long time, but for my planned through hike this year, i bought a north face "climber 3d dry loft" sleeping bag. it weighs 859 grams (1.8 lbs). it compresses to be almost as small as my 2 lbs down bag (a north face blue kazoo bought 15 years ago). the new synthetic bag carries a rating of 30F. it seems hard to beat by much in either volume or weight by down. and i think it will hold up better, especially when wet (hopefully, i'll never have a bag that is wet, but just in case ...). on a related subject, i decided to go with just a tarp and ground sheet for shelter. i had had a bivy sack on my list (2lbs) in addition to ground sheet and tarp -- i figured that if it were really windy and raining that i'd suffer too much with just the tarp + ground sheet. but i found that i can comfortably use my pack as a bivy up to my thighs (i.e., me in my sleeping bag, then stuff the bottom part in the unloaded pack). my pack isn't perfectly waterproof, of course, but the tarp should keep 99% of the rain off. if the rain is being driven in at an angle by the wind i figure that i can use some combination of the ground sheet folded over me (it is 2x the area i need) and my umbrella. if it gets really bad, i do have an emergency foil blanket (53 grams) to provide an additional waterproof layer. my pack's dry weight is now 14.5 lbs. i very much appreciate the advice i got from people on this list. i think i have all my equipment set -- just need to continue training, make the mail drop parcels, etc. rob ==================================================================================== Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:01:00 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: pct-l@backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bic Stoves On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 Montedodge@aol.com wrote: > Butane stoves are just glorified Bic Lighters with grills on top. These are i realize that the poster likes to bait people here. i'd like to add some facts to the excellent responses already made. 1. propane and butane have significantly higher energy density than white gas, about 35 btu's per gram as opposed to about 25 for "coleman fuel". that means that you don't have as much weight on your back for the amount of potential heat energy you are carrying. 2. everest expeditions use propane/butane (i've seen their used gear for sale in namche bazaar at 12,500', about 15 miles from the west buttress, and along with a lot of other sturdy high altitude gear are left over propane/butane stoves and canisters.) so along with the "good for girl scouts, etc.", please add "everest expeditions". 3. the hottest burning backpacker stove that i know of is the titanium primus. i have one and it is much hotter than any MSR i've used. in fact, i sometimes boil water w/o full throttle. with a small pot, the flames are so hot it can make it a little difficult to handle the pot. 4. as others have pointed out, temperatures on the pct may-octover, even in the worst conditions don't prevent propane/butane stoves from working. let me add that i have nothing against all the other stoves. i'm not telling anyone what kind of stove they should take. "hike your own hike", etc. some general comments about people giving advice: 1. when someone says "you are crazy to do X", i turn off. if they instead say "i've tried X or seen someone do X and the outcome was Y" (where Y is not good), i take it more seriously. 2. different people have different levels of acceptable risk and that will results in different decisions. 3. people who cast blanket criticisms on ray jardine's book haven't read it. people who have read the book realize that jardine was not making an unqualified and simple statement that all hikers should carry eight pound packs. he was showing how he and his wife did the trail and how others might learn something from it. 4. people who have hiked the whole pct in one season tend to favor light packs. 5. people who take a lot of gear (perhaps for the good reason that they need it to achieve their safety/goal/comfort tradeoff) have an emotional investment in their decision. this leads a few of them to criticize others for making different decisions. i recall climbing three fingered jack (in oregon) w/o helmets and getting "attitude" from some group climbers who were all wearing helmets. this was a climb where there was minimal exposure to rock fall. it wasn't crazy to either have or not have helmets. it was a personal decision. and for a group it made more sense to use helmets. i have seen plenty of people unprepared for extreme situations (e.g. winter camping in upstate n.y.) and i've only made a (friendly) comment once. that was when a father was using unsafe rock climbing technique with children. the children were correctly terrified. other climbers were also distressed by what they saw. together, we gently suggested to the unsafe leader/father that he not do what he was doing. 6. just as there is a risk of needing something you don't have, there is also a risk in taking something you don't need. jardine makes this point well. personally, i found ray's book interesting. like a number of people who have read the book, i have lowered my pack weight, but i don't go nearly as far as jardine himself does. i'm sure jardine would say "that's great, glad you found my book useful". i'd like to thank folks on this list for some great advice. rob bedichek http://www.arctic.org/~robert =================================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:40:21 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: Jeff Jones Cc: PCT list Subject: Re: [pct-l] Potassium permanganate jeff, i was on a trip where we used potassium permanganate to wash our hands before eating and decanted saturated iodine solution to sterilize our water. i don't know what when wrong with our system, but nine out of ten of us got very ill. perhaps the PP solution did its job and something else went wrong. i've recently heard that the iodine-based water sterilization techniques are not effective. i am planning to through-hike the pct this year with a water filter. they are heavy (close to a pound when wet, which they usually are), but it is the right tradeoff for my risk/comfort/weight profile. (the trip was in 1983. we tried to walk from kashmir through zanskar to ladakh (northern india). we failed, but not due to illness. my girlfriend at the time wrote a book about the trip, which i hope to add to my web site soon.) rob bedichek http://www.bedichek.org/robert On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jeff Jones wrote: > Howdy listers, > I was talking yesterday with a pilot that had just completed a 2 day > survival school here in the desert. He was singing the praises of > potassium permanganate (KMn04 if my memory of chemistry is correct). > The pilot has spoken with some municipal water treatment agencies that > use it and it was reported to be more effective than iodine or > chlorine. I asked about taste and color (it's dark purple) and he said > that at the concentrations used for water purification (don't know the > exact numbers), the color and taste were not noticeable. At higher > concentrations where the water is purple, it can be used as a soak to > treat athletes foot. From my aquarium days, I vaguely remember > something about it's antifungal properties. Lastly, he mentioned that > they used it as a fire starter. A gram or two sprinkled on an ounce of > sugar was wrapped in a gauze pad (the kindling). Place on a hard > surface and then scrape hard with a stick. Poof!!! Fire. The gauze > pad caught on fire long enough for small sticks to be added. Thought > I'd throw this out on the list to see if anyone has pros or cons, or the > concentrations that should be used. Sounds intriguing to me, at least > enough to start some investigating anyway. > Jeff Jones > > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net * > ================================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:39:02 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: pct-l@edina.hack.net Subject: through-hiker permits; start dates; stevenson 3rs and 2x tents i called the pcta office just now to ask about through-hiker permits. they said that they needed: 1. name and address 2. starting point 3. starting date (within a few days) 4. ending point 5. approximate ending date 6. number of people in the party 7. if climbing mt. whitney, approximate date of climb 8. signature the fellow at pcta said it would take about two weeks to issue the permit. is this what most through-hiker's do, get this permit? -------------------------------------------------------- i am tentatively planning to start april 15th and take the first two weeks slow, like 15 miles a day. this is a pace i found comfortable with a 40 pound pack, so i assume it will be easy with a 20-25 pound pack (16.5 dry, plus food and water). my thought is to take it easy at first to make sure i get in top shape with low chance of injury. also, since there is a lot of snow up north, if i go through the south fast, i would want to start later. does this make sense? -------------------------------------------------------- i'd like to put in a plug for margo chisholm's list of people planning to through-hike the pct this year. someone asked about possible partners: you could look at this list and perhaps send mail to people leaving about the time you want to leave. the url is: http://www.tothesummit.com/PCTRoster.html also, you can look at web pages of folks in this list to get more information about other people's preparations. mine is http://www.bedichek.org/robert/pct if you have suggestions or corrections, please let me know. -------------------------------------------------------- i have both a stevenson's 3rs and a 2x. the 3rs got heavier after i sent it back to be recoated. i think it is 5.6 pounds now. i'll check tonight. it has stood up to howling high altitude winds, but ripped apart as soon as tension was taken off the ends (we tried to collapse it as quickly as we could, but the metal poles tore like paper in a few seconds). stevenson's repaired it for a small charge. i've never had a stephenson's tent fail me while i was in it. the 2x is fragile, though. i think the 2x is 2.6 lbs now. my attitude towards equipment is that if i can abuse it and it doesn't suffer, it is probably too heavy. otoh, i wasn't abusing my 3rs when it ripped, but i also didn't mind too much because i no longer needed it that trip for protection. i've had the tents for about 16 years and like them. i may take the 2x on the pct, haven't decided yet. 've never met jack stephenson or ray jardine. but from reading their stuff, i think they are kindred souls. both into lightweight gear. both with strong opinions. both sound like they'd be difficult to be around. ------------------------------------------------------- thanks to brick (and others) for his great posts. rob ps. i make no claims to be a big authority on backpacking -- heavy or light. i've never done anything on the scale of through-hiking the pct. i appreciate most of the advice i've gotten from people on this list. pps. sorry about cc'ing the list on that reply to an individual earlier today -- i didn't mean to do that. =============================================================================== Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:32:53 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: pct-l@backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] questions about ticks; adzpctko party; recommended drugs i have some small questions that i hope people can answer. 1. i've read a bunch of web pages on ticks. ug. one can get lyme disease. ok. but what are the implications of this? is it treatable? if not in all cases, then i would think that hikers would want to get treated if they find a tick on themselves. but i don't see anything in anybody's list that would be used for treating ticks. how long does one have to get treatment? does it make sense to carry whatever antibiotic is used for this? (i plan to carry 500mg cipro -- unlikely that i'll use it, but nice to have.) 2. what is the approximate time of the lake morena party? i'll be arrive around dusk on saturday april 17th -- don't want to miss it! 3. what drugs do people recommend carrying? i currently plan to have ibuprofen, asprin+codine, and cipro. 4. has anyone heard of people who are amateur radio operators taking their handheld two meter radios on the pct? i know of one person who is taking one in case of emergency and also maybe to pass along progress reports to his family. seems reasonable, but i wonder how often one is in range of a repeater while on the pct. while doing solo hikes on the pct in northern washington, i sometimes took my handheld radio, but rarely was able to hit a repeater. i now have a super light (85g) radio (about the size of credit card, but 1/2" thick) that also picks up weather. i'm considering taking it for the same reasons as the other guy. i'll try to not use it around other hikers -- don't want to pollute their experience with electronic gagets. but maybe it wouldn't be in range most of the time anyway. i've ordered repeater coverage maps, but i thought i'd ask about people's experience with this as well. ----------------------------- to the person who has the food dehydrator, please, let us know your experience with it. i've updated my web pages considerably in the last week. i welcome advice regarding my planning choices and the web pages themselves. www.bedichek.org/robert/pct.html the information i've gotten from the folks on this list has been very helpful -- thanks! rob bedichek ps. i've ordered a nomad lite from kurt russell. he says he's made about 100 of them so far. he's taken care of the at through-hikers, now he is working on the orders for pct through-hikers, last he will work on the other orders. i spoke with him for a while -- he seems like a really nice guy. =============================================================================== ate: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:05 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: Margaret Brownell Cc: PCT Daily List Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bears / Cantainers / Sierras margaret, thanks for your post. i am weighing the options as well and haven't quite decided. however, after using the 2.9 lbs bear canister a few years ago, i won't be using it again. 1. it didn't hold nearly all my food, so i had to hang a bag anyway 2. it weighs as much as two days of food my current plan is to: 1. hang my food when possible (above timerberline it is tough to do, but i believe bears don't normally go above timberline at night) 2. try to eat prior to camp in the high-bear areas 3. use the installed bear boxes when available 4. realize that despite my precautions, i might get raided anyway and i'll just deal with it. there is no perfect lock, etc. the only bears i've ever seen were below the PCT near glacier peak (in northern washington). two cubs and an adult. it was a beautiful sight, one that i'll never forget. they moved slowly, looked like they were eating berries. but sure can run fast when they want to. i've seen a lot of fresh bear poop and fresh bear prints in the snow in yosemite. disclaimer: i'm no expert and welcome advice. ----------------- on a different topic, hanta virus (HNV?), was previously known as sin nombre virus (SNV) (literally "no name virus"), and what should have been called "four corners virus" in the tradition of naming new virus's after the location of their first discovery. a good friend of mine does research on deer mice that live at about 12,000'. many have HNV. she has to use a hazmat suit to do her work -- kind of freaks the locals. her old dissertation professor had a colleague who came down with it and died within four days. it is hard to get as the infected mice seem only to be contagious for a short time. but the mortality rate at least used to be 50%. you die by drowning in the fluid that builds in the lungs. from what monte says, though, it sounds like the SNV in the north is either less virulent or the docs have found better treatment. the #1 danger is inhaling the dust from the feces of infected animals. i think the chance of a pct hiker getting it, at least one who stays outside of buildings, is very low. but then the negative consequences are very high if you do get it. i looked into lyme disease a little. you can tell you're infected when you get a red ring around the bite and maybe flu-like symptoms. there is one antibiotic that is effective, i think dioxycyclin (sp?). i think you can get treated a while after you get it, but i don't know how long (i tried to find out, couldn't get a good answer). my strategy: if i get the red ring, i'll seek medical treatment the next time i cross a road. disclaimer: i'm not a medical doctor. rob ps. while i respect other people's political views, i think we'd all be better off if those views which don't relate to the pct were aired in a different forum. there are lots of groups on USENET, for example, just for this sort of thing. On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Margaret Brownell wrote: > What is this year's concenses regarding Bear Proof Food Containers and > carrying them in the Sierras? > - Should one carry the heavy thing and store the food in it at night? > - Should one sleep with the food (dumb?)? > - Cook and eat dinner prior to camp? > - Not worry about this? > I can't tell from reading any of the journals from the past few years if > anyone actually uses BPFCs. There doesn't seem to be any mention of bear > problems. > > If this is a repeat question, I'm sorry. I've just started on this list a > week or so ago. mb > > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net * > =============================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:02:43 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: Brian Horst Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: Lyme Disease brian, that's exactly the information i was looking for. thanks! rob On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Brian Horst wrote: > Got some firsthand info on it, as I picked it up on my '97 AT thru-hike. > > I noticed something that looked like a spider bite, and then eventually > turned into a bullseye about 2 days later. Another hiker got it too, and > his bullseye just kept growing in diameter til he started treatment. The > doc told me that the rash starts to show up after about 2 weeks, and that > maybe 50% actually get the rash symptom. Flu-like symptoms are common, but > neither myself or the other guy had them. > > I got a prescription for dioxycycline for 3 weeks. Two annoying things I > found out about dioxycycline - it greatly increases your sensitivity to the > sun, and you need to take it on an empty stomach. I got a good case of mild > sunburn even with liberal application of sunscreen (esp. being above > treeline in the Whites. should've used sunblock). The stuff also really > irritated my stomach, so that when I took it in the morning, I laid curled > up in an agonizing ball feeling like I was going to die for 15 minutes or > so, and felt pretty nauseous after taking it later in the day, though not as > badly as in the morning. Better than the end results of full blown Lyme > disease though. > > If you get a rash, it's easy to diagnose. With just the flu like symptoms > it's a bit more difficult. IMO, if you have the symptoms for a few days a > couple of weeks after passing thru a tick infested area, go a doc and let > them know that you've been hiking and ticks were a possibility. They can do > a blood test, but I don't know that it's very accurate. Either way, > dioxycycline is pretty cheap and it's side effects are way better than the > disabling and occasionally fatal effects of full blown Lyme disease. > > B~~~~ > > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net * > =============================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:35:01 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Bedichek To: Bumblefist@aol.com Cc: pct-l@edina.hack.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] No support dear wayne, i liked your open letter to the pcta, you ask a good question and you put it well. i don't know why the pcta isn't responding. but i can tell why i am ambivalent about this issue. i should say in advance that i am a '99 hopeful and i've never visited the hiker's heaven. i am a member of the pcta, but don't represent pcta in any way. a few weeks ago i spent maybe 30 minutes looking at the pro-randy web pages. i assume that when (and if) i visit the hiker's haven, i'll love it. it sounds great. i bet randy is a super guy. and i have no doubt that he's put his heart and soul into the hostel. however, i also think it is good to keep some places wild. most of the lands that the pcta are more or less wild. if i supported randy, how about 100 folks like randy, all setting up hostels on the trail? i'm not actually worried about this happening any time soon. but it would seem inconsistent to support randy, but not willing to do so for others. randy has made a home on public lands. it shouldn't be a surprise that some collection of the people who administer these lands (the fed's and the college which have some sort of a lease) might change their minds about whether they want randy there. they might or might not have good motives, but that doesn't mean that people should support those with whom they are in conflict. perhaps when i visit randy's place i'll change my tune. and i'm not arguing that randy's should lose his case. i just explaining why one person isn't standing up to defend the guy -- i'm conflicted about it. as one person to another, i do wish randy well. but sometimes individuals suffer for the greater good. i'm sure that you'd argue that the greater good is served by letting randy alone. but others might disagree. perhaps other people feel a similar conflict. or perhaps i'm all wet and there is some essential part of the issue that i'm missing. but note that several people on this list advocated keeping the pct's profile low by not talking to backpacker magazine about material in which they might otherwise be interested. their motivation: keep the pct wild, keep the hordes from descending (*). one who took that logic might be conflicted about the hiker's haven issue as well. on a perhaps-related topic, has anyone on this list had experience with "the muir trail ranch". i noticed that jardine doesn't list it. perhaps this is because he is opposes horse traffic on the pct. i am planning a food drop there. i found their web page from margo's post. how are through-hiker's treated there? how do people feel about the environmental impact of the ranch? from craig's pct planner, it looks to be at about 8000'. vegetation at that altitude is fragile. rob (*) i personally would be happy for more hikers to use the pct. while i personally would prefer to have it almost completely to myself, it isn't mine -- it belongs to everyone. of course, i would be sad if the increased use hurt the natural beauty. but from hiking in the mt. hood area, which has huge volume, i can see how one can have a lot of visitors (on foot) and minimal impact. ps. i've ridden horses, i like horses, i have friends who own and ride horses, and i've been on a trail ride in arizona many years ago, which i enjoyed. i think there are a lot of public lands on which horses are just great. but i've also been dismayed by the damage caused by groups with horses.